When do you quit?

[witchcraftz]

Re: When do you quit?

Head gasket, which gasket did you use? 1,2, or 3 holes? Since the head was used I hope you use a 3 hole gasket due to thickness and new bolts of course.

I used a 2 hole, this is the same as the original gasket. Also used new bolts, of course.

When you did the turbo did you use all the exhaust manifold washers?

Yes.

Before you go through the crazy job of the whole wiring loom make 100% sure that the front sensors and abs ring are exactly the the same distance all the way around. When you replaced the sensors did you wire brush the crap out of the wholes to make sure they sat completely in? I skipped that part when I did my front right and when I slow down a certain way my abs kicks in. I have a new sensor to fix the issue, just have more important things to worry about.

Also keep in mind, if all the wheel speed sensors are giving you readings down to 0 I highly doubt the wiring harness is your issue. Is there a way to log each sensor when slowing down to see if your problem is due to a sensor? I would check, but I am not sure of where my vagcom is at the moment.

The front right ring and bearing were replaced for new ones. The sensor is also new (all of them are, and have basically no driving on them). My 3 other sensors are reading fine but this one is always zero, nothing is getting through from the sensor - it's not even intermittent.

Your list is long, but many of us could easily put a longer list down if needed. If you want something that you don't need to fix drop the $30k for a new car and get a warranty.

I was thinking about buying a similar model, 2004-2005 MK4 TDI BEW, those sell for $9000-$10000. If I could get $3000 for this one then I'd be spending the same on another TDI as I would fixing this one. Minus any ABS issues still to fix.

[witchcraftz]

Re: When do you quit?

When you replaced the head gasket, did you make certain that you replaced it with the exact same gasket as the one that was in their previously? Reason is that there are like 4 different head gaskets. As far as torquing the other things like the intake and turbo, I've never used a torque wrench for either. Usually I just tighten by feel and crank on it with a 3/8 drive until I know its not going to leak. I use antiseeze for both the intake bolts and turbo studs. Are you losing any coolant? Because a head gasket leak should result in lost of coolant.

I don't think I'm loosing coolant, but I've driven it maybe 3km in the last two months so it probably wouldn't show if I was.

The ABS issue, I haven't been following the thread but I assume you have tried vagcom a few times. If the compression in your head is off because its leaking it could cause your vacuum to be suffering which would also throw off your abs.

The ABS system itself seems to be okay, I can't access the various controllers which are associated to it, such as the G200, etc... And without accessing them, I can't recalibrate them, and I can't complete the ABS setup.
But that's a good piece of information to know about the pressure, thanks.

[Stonewall]

Re: When do you quit?

The front right ring and bearing were replaced for new ones. The sensor is also new (all of them are, and have basically no driving on them). My 3 other sensors are reading fine but this one is always zero, nothing is getting through from the sensor - it's not even intermittent.

Wouldn't the best thing to do here is run new wires for that sensor to see if it fixes it? It is cheap and should be rather easy to do.

[witchcraftz]

Re: When do you quit?

I've been thinking of replacing the wire, just to see. But I don't have high hopes that it'll fix the problem, the ABS sensor issue just popped up out of nowhere, it was fine for a while and then poof.

I'm almost thinking the pins from the harness connector have broken inside. But if I'm going to replace the abs wire and the harness connector, it might be better just to replace all of it at once?

[Benjamin]

Re: When do you quit?

Here is what I found that should determine the amount of holes

new gasket set - note - check the number of holes punched in the head gasket, it must either match the old gasket or you must measure piston protrusion and order the respective "number of holes" gasket. An incorrect gasket will change your compression. See your Bentley manual for more details. Because the gaskets have different part numbers they are not listed here. If you shave the cylinder head during a rebuild it doesn't change the compression or piston protrusion since the head is flat. The valves must keep the same relationship to the pistons and check valve seating and relief.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a...TDI-engine.htm

Since your head was replaced with a used head, you are probably going to have to do this to figure out which gasket you will need.

In terms of the ABS what is generated when the wheel spins that gives us a speed? Eg if I go to a working wheel and spin it with the abs sensor disconnected and an electrical meter on the 2 contacts of the sensor will something show up? It will be a lot easier if you can start at the sensor and ring and work your way back up the harness if everything proves ok at the start.

Another thing I thought I should look up as I have run into this in the past. Are you sure the mechanic put the correct ring on your car? I went and did a simple search for hubs on autopartsway and found that there are two different hubs listed for 2004, I know you have a 2005 but there could be a chance. The problem is that obscure, but the solution could be something so simple as well.

[witchcraftz]

Re: When do you quit?

Here is what I found that should determine the amount of holes

new gasket set - note - check the number of holes punched in the head gasket, it must either match the old gasket or you must measure piston protrusion and order the respective "number of holes" gasket. An incorrect gasket will change your compression. See your Bentley manual for more details. Because the gaskets have different part numbers they are not listed here. If you shave the cylinder head during a rebuild it doesn't change the compression or piston protrusion since the head is flat. The valves must keep the same relationship to the pistons and check valve seating and relief.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a...TDI-engine.htm

Since your head was replaced with a used head, you are probably going to have to do this to figure out which gasket you will need.

According to my research, the block is what determines headgasket size, as long as the same size headgasket is used any head is fine.

In terms of the ABS what is generated when the wheel spins that gives us a speed? Eg if I go to a working wheel and spin it with the abs sensor disconnected and an electrical meter on the 2 contacts of the sensor will something show up? It will be a lot easier if you can start at the sensor and ring and work your way back up the harness if everything proves ok at the start.

The sensor is a magnet that the metallic ABS ring on the hub spins by. Each hole in the ring causes a magnetic pulse to be created. Even disconnected there should be some values coming through the sensor.

Another thing I thought I should look up as I have run into this in the past. Are you sure the mechanic put the correct ring on your car? I went and did a simple search for hubs on autopartsway and found that there are two different hubs listed for 2004, I know you have a 2005 but there could be a chance. The problem is that obscure, but the solution could be something so simple as well.

The front should be parts 1J0 407 613 G or 1J0 407 613 C, I believe they are interchangeable but perhaps the rings are not interchangeable. I'll take a look again at the gaps.

[cheeba]

Re: When do you quit?

What's up, Benjamin! It's Jeremy

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but repairing vs. selling is a simple choice that only you can make. I know that used vehicles can be frustrating - especially German ones - but maybe it will help to put it all down on paper and evaluate your options. Furthermore, you either used the wrong HG, or installed it incorrectly - head gaskets don't just go bad in 3KM (unless it was obviously damaged, in which case it's still installer error). And what exactly is the ABS issue? Post your VAG-COM scan. Did the issue start right after the bearing/hub/sensor ring work was done? Is it on the same wheel as the repair? If it is, then clearly there was some error in the work there as well.

Exhaust leaks are just par for the course on turbo engines - the heat cycles wreak havoc on fasteners. Us guys with big turbos are constantly struggling with methods to keep our systems together - lock nuts, Nord-Locks, safety wire, etc. Nord-Locks under copper lock nuts is a good way to get some bite without having to resort to complex stuff like safety wiring. I also use a dab of 1000°C exhaust putty (available at Canadian tire) on the top of the studs/nuts, and it's worked well for me; and, I have much higher EGTs than you do.

[witchcraftz]

Re: When do you quit?

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but repairing vs. selling is a simple choice that only you can make. I know that used vehicles can be frustrating - especially German ones - but maybe it will help to put it all down on paper and evaluate your options. Furthermore, you either used the wrong HG, or installed it incorrectly - head gaskets don't just go bad in 3KM (unless it was obviously damaged, in which case it's still installer error).

I'd agree with you, and yet I'm sure I did it right, so either the headgasket was defective from the manufacturer or something else is wrong which caused this as a secondary issue.

And what exactly is the ABS issue? Post your VAG-COM scan. Did the issue start right after the bearing/hub/sensor ring work was done? Is it on the same wheel as the repair? If it is, then clearly there was some error in the work there as well.

Have another thread with all info and VAGcom scan.
http://www.eurodrivers.ca/forums/sho...g-when-braking

Exhaust leaks are just par for the course on turbo engines - the heat cycles wreak havoc on fasteners. Us guys with big turbos are constantly struggling with methods to keep our systems together - lock nuts, Nord-Locks, safety wire, etc. Nord-Locks under copper lock nuts is a good way to get some bite without having to resort to complex stuff like safety wiring. I also use a dab of 1000°C exhaust putty (available at Canadian tire) on the top of the studs/nuts, and it's worked well for me; and, I have much higher EGTs than you do.

The problem isn't that it's leaking as much that it's another gasket that has failed - at the same time - lending more credence to the fact there might be another underlying issue.

[cheeba]

Re: When do you quit?

Not trying to be an ass again, but everyone thinks they're doing it 'right' when they fix a car. I don't know what your experience level is, but I regularly see mechanics **** up much simpler jobs than headgaskets. If you're not overboosting like crazy, it's an incredible coincidence that you had two complete separate gaskets fail in such little time.

So both gaskets failed in 3KM? What psi are you running? If there were some flaw in a head or turbo gasket, it should have been pretty obvious, and very unlikely for that batch not to get called back after the problems start turning up, specifically the head gasket. Did you clean the head and block very well? Are you sure your head doesn't need planing? A single grain of sand/dirt can screw you over here. It's also imperative that your fasteners and bolt holes be perfectly clean, and you use proper torquing methodology.

As far as the ABS issue, did the problem start before any of the bearing/hub/brake repairs? Before anything, I'd try pulling the wire leads and checking for continuity to check for breaks in the wiring. At least then you can isolate the issue to sensors/hardware or wiring.

[witchcraftz]

Re: When do you quit?

Not trying to be an ass again, but everyone thinks they're doing it 'right' when they fix a car. I don't know what your experience level is, but I regularly see mechanics **** up much simpler jobs than headgaskets.

No insult taken.
I'm not a mechanic, this was the first time I worked on this level of repair on an engine. However I'm smart enough to know when to get knowledgeable help. I had a friend of mine, a guy with lots of mechanical experience, and who's done a few headgaskets, help me out. We followed the VW service manual to the letter.

If you're not overboosting like crazy, it's an incredible coincidence that you had two complete separate gaskets fail in such little time. So both gaskets failed in 3KM? What psi are you running? If there were some flaw in a head or turbo gasket, it should have been pretty obvious, and very unlikely for that batch not to get called back after the problems start turning up, specifically the head gasket. Did you clean the head and block very well? Are you sure your head doesn't need planing? A single grain of sand/dirt can screw you over here. It's also imperative that your fasteners and bolt holes be perfectly clean, and you use proper torquing methodology.

I'm running stock everything. Stock turbo, stock boost, stock ECU/programming, I haven't even done the hammer mod. Nothing at all has been done to the engine. So my PSI should be 15.

The head and block were cleaned, the gasket was taken out of the wrapper and immediately inserted and the whole thing put back together - with new bolts and proper torquing pattern and to spec.

And yes, that incredible coincidence is what has got me worried.

Maybe we missed a grain of dirt. Maybe the head or block needs planing, but that would be one of those secondary things that worry me. The cost of towing the car to a garage to get the engine pulled, turbo removed, head planed, new gaskets, new bolts, put it all back together is more than it's worth. It would be cheaper just to buy a new(er) engine and drop it in.

As far as the ABS issue, did the problem start before any of the bearing/hub/brake repairs? Before anything, I'd try pulling the wire leads and checking for continuity to check for breaks in the wiring. At least then you can isolate the issue to sensors/hardware or wiring.

The ABS issue started before any of the repairs, however until the ABS pump was replaced I was able to access the modules through Vagcom.

I had the ABS issue and the front right sensor seemed to be bad. I replaced it but it didn't fix the problem, then I replaced the front right ring, then the other sensors, then the ABS pump, and finally the entire rear hubs and I'm still at my starting point - minus the module access, so I guess I'm more in the hole actually.

[cheeba]

Re: When do you quit?

Well, you aren't running any kind of cylinder pressures that will pop HGs in 3KM, so I don't know what to tell you other than it sounds very likely that you just screwed the job up. It happens to everyone - it's a part of learning. Several years ago, Benjamin helped me do my first timing belt because I was afraid of mucking it up, and now I'm fabricating stuff and have assembled a few engines, including my own, which has seen 30,000KM of 600+HP abuse. I broke a few things along the way due to stupidity, and it's just part of the DIY game

If you were closer, I'd take the car off your hands, or help you get it running. If it's causing you nothing but grief, and you're in a financial position to do so, I say just dump it.

[Benjamin]

Re: When do you quit?

Oh Jeremy I have been meaning to reply to this to say hi, its been awhile though. Remember when you changed the fuel pump sometime later and was a couple teeth out. There went an hour or two on the phone if I remember right.

IF the car is causing you to lose sleep just move on and cut your loses. Another option is to get a cheap beater and use it until you figure out your problems. That requires parking space and might take some more mechanical time as well, depending on the car. I hate to see you lose money and pick up another money pit, but I know the feeling of cutting your loses and moving on.

[witchcraftz]

Re: When do you quit?

Well, you aren't running any kind of cylinder pressures that will pop HGs in 3KM, so I don't know what to tell you other than it sounds very likely that you just screwed the job up.

I'd say you're right, even though I was so sure I did everything right.

Another possibility I've been mulling around is the previous owner put a 2 hole gasket, and it's the wrong one, causing the original issue to begin with, maybe it needs a 3 hole gasket...

Another option is to get a cheap beater and use it until you figure out your problems. That requires parking space and might take some more mechanical time as well, depending on the car.

Well my girlfriend is buying a 2012 Fiat 500 tomorrow, and I have a parking spot in the apartment building at $25/month. I want to have the car running by December 19th ideally, I need to drive back to Calgary for xmas time and the Fiat isn't going to cut it, and I really don't want to rent another car.

I hate to see you lose money and pick up another money pit, but I know the feeling of cutting your loses and moving on.

Me too, but I'm not sure I can do a headgasket alone yet, somehow it seems even with a mechanic helping I screwed up. I wish I was still in Calgary to get some insight from you guys, nothing like eurodrivers out in Vancouver.

Would fixing the HG/turbo gasket at a garage be cheaper than having a garage drop in another engine? Cheapest VW place I've found here is $90/hour, the next best is $120/hour... Ouch...

I'm going to try to fix that ABS issue before anything else, I have found a donor car with a full ABS harness which I will be picking up tomorrow evening. If this doesn't fix the ABS issue, nothing will.

I have also found a 2005 TDI engine locally, the seller says it has 30k km and it's ready to drop in, he's asking $3000 though.

[cheeba]

Re: When do you quit?

Oh Jeremy I have been meaning to reply to this to say hi, its been awhile though. Remember when you changed the fuel pump sometime later and was a couple teeth out. There went an hour or two on the phone if I remember right. . .

Haha, yup! I don't know how many beers I owe you, but it's a lot! You really got me introduced to doing more-than-basic work, and it's snowballed horribly ever since I'd be glad to buy you some drinks, and maybe go walk some Ferraris in the TT, so shoot me a message if you ever want to I'm still in love with the TDIs though...when I was first going to build the TT, I almost pulled the trigger on a I5 TDI swap. I sort of regret not doing it...until I hit the go pedal...


Witchcraftz, it doesn't take too long to change a HG, but shops are probably going to just charge you book rate unless you find someone willing to work with you. If you drop in a new engine, I'd be interested in purchasing your current one though. I could arrange for someone to pick it up for me.

[BaggedGLI]

Re: When do you quit?

Considering you bought this car for dirt cheap with a snapped timing belt with the plans of getting it on the road again, you knew you were getting into a project.

The risk you take is doing it yourself, you could have paid for a shop to do it and it may not have had problems, it maybe would have had problems, but then you would have had warranty on the work.......

With all the money you saved by doing it yourself, doing it again, you should still be ahead in cost from taking it to a shop.

You keep powering through until you no longer love the car or cant afford to maintain it, then get rid of it and get something different.