Timing and temperature

[QuA]

Hey does anyone know which logs are good for timing and intercooler temperatures with a vag?

QuA

[bart]

Re: Timing and temperature

how high does your ic go up to?

[QuA]

Re: Timing and temperature

Hey bart is that my Intake temp or the second one? My highest intake temp with a few spirited runs was 49C

That was block 118 with boost etc.

[bart]

Re: Timing and temperature

ya its the one labelled "intake temp", mine goes up to 27ish nice huh, i tried to make it higher, but i ran out of gears ahah

[QuA]

Re: Timing and temperature

Thats pretty sweet. I did mine when it was hot outside but depending how far I went in each gear is how high my temp went. In 3rd gear i was in the 20-29's but when i went crazy in 4th thats when my intake temps were going up. But its nice to see that our fmic are actually working =)

Im gonna do a test with ignition timing and all the cylinders to see if I can raise timing. My boost isnt that crazy high so I would think I can increase a little more timing, but Rene said he already increased it =) Lets do mo'!

[QuA]

Re: Timing and temperature

Never saw any logs anywhere with that low intake temps on aftermarket fmic's after many spirited runs.

Could audi actually make a good fmic ? =)

[Kor]

Re: Timing and temperature

Never saw any logs anywhere with that low intake temps on aftermarket fmic's after many spirited runs.

Could audi actually make a good fmic ? =)

Its because his turbo does not get as hot as yours.

[bart]

Re: Timing and temperature

Its because his turbo does not get as hot as yours.

no no, thats wrong. don't listen to kor, he's a computer scientist, err pardon, a software engineer, not a mechanic engineer

first, my turbo really big, way bigger then yours, so more surface area equals more heat. you should also remember diesel combusts at higher heats than gasoline.

next diesels have these things called glow plugs, which also generate extra heat and this adds to engine operating temperature. we can't leave out driving style, because that is the greatest determining factor, the longer you have it floored, the hotter it gets, right?

finally the intercooler plays a role. it might be too big for the turbo, meaning your turbo can't pump enough PSI into it, or what it was designed for... remember its an upsolute intercooler, so probably with TDI's in mind, as chipping them is their specialty, and tdi's run at higher boost already by default than a 1.8t.

so lets say your intercooler is too big, that would be a reason why the intake temperature is high. like i said, your turbo cant pump enough pounds per square inch in there, meaning too little air inside. if you're intercooler is not packed to its fullest design specifications, the air does not flow properly, not smoothly, but it wobbles and bounces around in there and goes where it deems necessary before it can fill every little gap before it starts coming out again, so in short, its in there too long! the longer the air is in there, the warmer it will be. pretend your floor it for a long time, ok, so its just sitting in there a long time and in the beginning it was ok, but once the intercooler starts getting warmer, so does the air flowing through it, ok? kapish?

this problem is commonly best described as the Venturi Effect.

basically mike, the best solution (with keeping the same IC you have now) is when you upgrade your turbo, get something a little smaller, but which can pump a heck of a lot more air into your engine. this means it spools nice and fast, fills up that IC super quick, and at a high pressure, the air that goes through it comes out right away, instead of pockets of stray air acculmulating somewhere in corners in there and just heating up and causing unnecessary heat, with small turbo and high boost, you'll be sure you can force through watever goes in and make it come out the other end immediately!

i hope this makes things clear.

[R_Ethug]

Re: Timing and temperature

^^^^^ but seriously good post bart

[Stonewall]

Re: Timing and temperature

Umm Bart the glow plugs are on for about 10 seconds before you start the car, they are not a major source of heat. A VNT-17 turbo is still really not all that big but maybe about the size as a K03 or whatever the stock 1.8t's use. The new TDI engines will also have a cooler block then a 1.8t after a nice run. I coudn't even go near Ryans engine once when mine was fairly cool. The TDI engine just doesn't produce enough heat and that is why they don't recomend idleing them for any period of time (my car gets colder in the winter while idling. All the points about the intercooler are pretty accurate but you have to think that there is always air in the intake but the pressure ramps up as the turbo spooles up so I think any type of vacuum effect is not going to have any type of effect.

[bart]

Re: Timing and temperature

no no, our glow plugs are on all the time, this is why they fail so much. if they were only on for 10 seconds, they would last longer then a couple of years, no? yes 1.8t's block will be a little hotter then tdi, because it revs much higher, so there is more friction per second on the block, which generates that extra heat.

technically speaking, the faster you blow air past the intercooler, the better it cools, but only to a certain degree. you need to take into account intercooler surface air, air density (ie: elevation) and a couple other factors. then you can determine what precise speed to inject air into intercooler for it to cool optimally. if i remember correctly, the ideal range is somewhere between 742-811mph for my setup. anything more or less is not as efficient. faster means more air compression and this generates heat, less means the air is in there longer, which does not cool as fast once the IC is warm. more technical information on this matter is available, its sometimes referred to as the Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution.

[Flanders]

Re: Timing and temperature

OMFG. I thought I would never see that damn equation again after I got my iron ring!

[Stonewall]

Re: Timing and temperature

no no, our glow plugs are on all the time, this is why they fail so much. if they were only on for 10 seconds, they would last longer then a couple of years, no?

Bad Bart Bad, and you call yourself a diesel tuner Glow plugs are used to preheat the cylinder so the car will start better ad it needs heat and compresion to ignite the fuel. As soon as the glowplug lights go out the glowplugs are off (ok really about 5sec later).

[bart]

Re: Timing and temperature

no no, they are on all the time they have 2 settings, high and low, during pre-crank they are on high, and when you first start the engine and its not at temperature, they are on high too, through the idle, they are there assisting the engine in warming up faster. once up to temp, they are still on, but on a lower voltage, but still on. this low setting, is just a diagnostic precaution, the ecu keeps "pinging" the glow plugs checking to see if they are working, because you cant check something if its off, now can you? and you dont want to only check before you try starting the car, in case dont work anymore, meaning your car wont start. the low setting allows for glow plug functionality checking, and if that fails, triggers a CEL meaning hurry and goto dealer before you turn your car off or its your fault it wont start on you in the morning.

[QuA]

Re: Timing and temperature

Bart you are one crazy mofo! =P

I was doing some testing with lemmiwinks and changed my ignit. timing and logged my cylinders. Hmmm 91 octane isnt that good =) .. I might be able to get away with 0.75 degree increase. My 3 &4 cylinders on block 011 were around 7-9. I believe Rene already increased my timing but i think im maxed out before some higher octane.

Tested the Upsolute FMIC and it would go past 47 C. Nice cooler =)

What are stock SMIC's hitting?

QuA