Tasers...

[Khyron]

Re: Tasers...

Reduce the use. Can't we all agree on that, at least?

You earlier made the huge assumption that police officers are well trained in grappling and unarmed combat. They get maybe a weekend course a year after they're done basic. Some do it privately on their own, others don't.

They're not paid to be ninja fighters. They are paid to know and enforce laws, and mediate disputes. Not be boxers. You pull a knife, they pull a gun. They are not supposed to try fancy disarm tricks or go toe to toe.

A taser doesn't work on pain, it causes paralysis for those 5 seconds. That's why it works on anyone, no matter how tough or drugged they are. It also works at a distance which is safer for everyone involved.

Search hard enough I'm sure there's been a few fatalities caused by pillows, straws and toilets.

[Khyron]

Re: Tasers...

Yah, a hungry thirsty guy brandishing a table, smashing computers and thowing crap into glass windows threateing everyone else in the room - in an international airport.

You have compassion because you know he died. If you were standing in that room, waiting to get out you would have probably been saying "Holy crap just take this guy away in a straight jacket". Exactly the same reason why the camera guy wasn't saying "Oh my god look at the vicious cops" - at the time it looked like the right call.

And still the taser gets blamed when it was more likely the dogpile afterwards because he was STILL resisting like the hulk.

But that's ok - the next time a mentaly unstable guy starts swinging a pipe or other weapon around in a public place, the anti-taser people will sleep easy knowing he's not being tortured as the bullets shred him to pieces.

Should also be a class action lawsuit by all police officers, since they were obviously forced to be tortured by the government in order to get their taser certification.

[calgarydub]

Re: Tasers...

Blah blah blah - but no-one offers any alternatives. I'd like to see one of you try and subdue someone high on PCP WHO FEELS NO PAIN. You can break legs and he'll still keep coming.

But I guess shotguns and pistols are what people want to see used more often? Brilliant.

Here's a point someone brought up in an interview on tv. They said that Tasers should only be used as an alternative to lethal force. That meaning instead of law enforcement drawing a pistol and potentially wounding/killing the subject with a bullet, a taser could be used instead. Multiple tases are uncalled for, especially with multiple officers in attendance. ESPECIALLY when a relatively calm person is involved. Here's a slogan to show what I think about tasers.

Reduce the use. Can't we all agree on that, at least?

[nordex]

Re: Tasers...

Blah blah blah - but no-one offers any alternatives. I'd like to see one of you try and subdue someone high on PCP WHO FEELS NO PAIN. You can break legs and he'll still keep coming.

But I guess shotguns and pistols are what people want to see used more often? Brilliant.

Totally agree BUT when you look at what happened in Van. that was torture. He was not high on pcp but he was probably hungry, thirsty and confused.

In the Van. situation there were also four large police officers with an abundant amount of tools they could have used.

[Khyron]

Re: Tasers...

Blah blah blah - but no-one offers any alternatives. I'd like to see one of you try and subdue someone high on PCP WHO FEELS NO PAIN. You can break legs and he'll still keep coming.

But I guess shotguns and pistols are what people want to see used more often? Brilliant.

[nordex]

Re: Tasers...

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegrap...rom=public_rss

UN says tasers are torture

TASER electronic stun guns are a form of torture that can kill, a UN committee has declared after several recent deaths in North America.

"The use of these weapons causes acute pain, constituting a form of torture,'' the UN's Committee against Torture said.

"In certain cases, they can even cause death, as has been shown by reliable studies and recent real-life events,'' the committee of 10 experts said.

Three men, all in their early 20s, were reported to have died in the United States this week, days after a Polish man died at Vancouver airport after being Tasered by Canadian police.

The man, Robert Dziekanski, 40, fell to the ground and died after the police officers piled on top of him.

There have been three deaths in Canada after the use of Tasers over the past five weeks.

The company that makes the weapons has said that similar deaths have been shown by "medical science and forensic analysis'' to be "attributable to other factors and not the low-energy electrical discharge of the Taser".

The UN committee made its comments in recommendations to Portugal, which has bought the newest Taser X26 stun gun for use by police.

Portugal "should consider giving up the use of the Taser X26,'' as its use can have a grave physical and mental impact on those targeted, which violates the UN's Convention against Torture, the experts said.

[Canadian Turbo]

Re: Tasers...

Another taser death this week...

OTTAWA (AFP) — A third death in five weeks linked to the use of Taser stun guns by police in Canada on Thursday prompted a ministerial inquiry in easternmost Nova Scotia province.

Justice Minister Cecil Clarke ordered the review into the use of Tasers in Nova Scotia, he said, following the death of a 45-year-old man who died in police custody Wednesday, hours after being zapped.

"I have ordered Police Services officials in my department to immediately begin a review of policies and procedures regarding Taser use in Nova Scotia" by law enforcement, corrections staff and sheriffs, Clarke said in a statement.

"At the same time, RCMP are being called in to investigate the circumstances of the death at the correctional facility and I understand Halifax Regional Police will also have the RCMP conduct an external investigation into the arrest."

In October, Robert Dziekanski, 40, died after being shocked repeatedly by policemen with a Taser stun gun only 60 seconds after they first approached him at the Vancouver airport in westernmost Canada.

A bystander's video released last week showed the four officers then piled on top of the distraught traveler as he lay writhing and screaming in pain on the floor, and within minutes he fell still.

Days later, a Montreal man died in hospital after being shocked by police with a stun gun, touted as a safer alternative to firearms.

In the wake of these fatalities, Amnesty International urged authorities to suspend the use of Tasers, saying it had documented 16 prior deaths in Canada that raise "serious questions about the health risks involved in electro-shock weapons."

The Royal Newfoundland Constabulary heeded the call, suspending the use of Tasers in the Atlantic island province.

British Columbia province announced a public inquiry into Dziekanski's death. The coroner, the federal police homicide team, Canada's national police complaint's commissioner also launched independent probes of his death.

Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day said he ordered a review of the use of Tasers in Canada and asked Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) to explain how Dziekanski, who spoke only Polish, got through customs, and why he was left alone in a secure area for nearly 10 hours.

The CBSA is expected to make its report public by week's end.

Dziekanski had traveled to British Columbia to live with his mother and start a new life, but a mix-up at the airport forced him to wait for her for almost 10 hours in a secure area, while she waited for him on the other side of a wall in the public arrivals area.

According to the family's lawyer, Dziekanski spoke only Polish, and had never before traveled far from his home town of Pieszyce, Poland.

Police were called to the Vancouver airport after Dziekanski blocked a security door with chairs and a table, and threw a computer off a counter onto the floor.

[calgarydub]

Re: Tasers...

In the history of policing they have always used physical force to subdue a threat(before tasers were introduced). Now, if you listen closely, the police officers decide almost immediately that tasers are going to be used.Tell me how 4 trained police officers couldn't manage one man without using a taser? I don't know what police officers are taught as far as takedowns, but I am almost positive that 4 of them could get the man under a submission without tasering him x amount of times. Tasers are not a bad thing, but they should not be used until it is proven that 100% of people tasered will live. A month of training mixed martial arts could easily teach people how to effectively get someone into a submission.
Tasers need to be used appropriately if they are going to be used at all. At YVR they were indeed misused and there should be charges laid against the officers for the failure to correctly assess the situation. Tasered within 25 seconds, dead within 1:25. How can anyone tell me something isn't wrong with that?

[me=mk3]

Re: Tasers...

I think those cops from the vancouver airport should be droping the soap in jail by now. The polish guy was angry because nobody helped him to clear the customs for 10 hours and he didnt speak english therefore he could not help himself. Once the coops showed up, he showed signs of cooperation. Imagine the same situation, but the cops being civilians. They would be prosecuted in 5 minutes in court for murder.

Its pretty sad when four police officers cant control an exhausted man with a stapler. This questions the credibility of our police.

Also, why nobody in an airport notices a man wondering around for 10 hours. Dont they have security to detect suspicious behavior? If only one staff member would help him go through customs he would probably still be alive.

[Russell]

Re: Tasers...

I believe the taser is a good idea, it's usually that one bad cop that abuses his power.

This is very true, we don't hear about the number of lives it has saved... just from the little bit I watched on the TV there seems to be a number of cases where it has been used wrong or abused.

[sejnomar]

Re: Tasers...

Not all cops carry Tasers, and if they do they do get the proper training. Not sure if this is true but I heard that every cop (EPS) gets tazed to see what it feels like. (In the training program)

I believe the taser is a good idea, it's usually that one bad cop that abuses his power.

[Khyron]

Re: Tasers...

Um, every cop that is certified to use a taser has been tasered. Usually more than once. Every cop that is certified to use pepper spray has had it in their face. Usually more than once. Etc. I got the stun gun portion of the taser just because I wanted to know how much it hurts. It's safer than anything else they can do to you, especially if you're on PCP or something.

They also log each time they are discharged, some even spraying metal identification flakes when they are fired, so the usage can be tracked similar to bullets.

[Russell]

Re: Tasers...

I don’t think it is so much the taser, but the people using them…some of the people with tasers don’t understand what it feels like, or when to stop. There was a good case of this on the news last night, a guy drove away from a police officer unaware that he was being given a ticket (or something like that) , once the police officer got up to him he tasered him twice… dude was like 60, not really a threat. The other case they had was a protester that they used the taser against twice when clearly he was not a threat to being with, the second time he was on the ground with his face being pushed into the road. So its not the taser but when and how they are able to use them, in my mind it is assault.

The problem I think is the fact that it is seen to have no consequence, or that is the way they are/were portraying it to the public. That they can use this tool and really there is no harm done, but it is clear from several cases (in Canada and the USA) that people can die from this in which case it should be treated like a gun and they should be given proper training for it (which I don’t think they all have).

[Kordain]

Re: Tasers...

Wheres Aleks on this one, maybe he can tell us how many people hes had to treat from taser terror!!

[The Brice]

Re: Tasers...

True but that is the amperage that kills you not the voltage is all I'm saying, and 15mA won't usually stop your heart but it will cause ventricular fibrillation which will kill you just the same.