VW in trouble

[GINCH]

Re: VW in trouble

Why not just keep your diesel?

[R_Ethug]

Re: VW in trouble

Why not just keep your diesel?

I would love to it just hit 40k even.

I'll see how it goes with Audi but if they buy it back and i can move into a newer model than i'll see or i'll bid farewell and go to something else.

[Canadian Turbo]

Re: VW in trouble

I still have to side a bit with VW on this one, sure they missold something but it is still a perfectly fine automobile that pollutes more than you think it would / should so to be getting all this compensation for just having bought a TDI, and people are taking even more advantage of the situation. Although I heard the super stripped cars are having their appointments bumped as VW attempts to close that loophole as it is not in the intention of the arrangement.

[Tuna]

Re: VW in trouble

Yea I tend to agree, I'm not rushing out to get rid of mine as it's really good for our needs but if they give a decent buyback price plus the extra cash I'd just be really tempted to get in to something newer.

The only other thing I'm not sure about (haven't done any reading on it) is what the "fix" is and how it performs. I'm way out of warranty so it's not like a chip would be out of the question though.

I doubt the resale is that bad, in fact once it dies down I bet my 2L TDI wagon will maintain it's resale for a while.

[bydesign]

Re: VW in trouble

... it is still a perfectly fine automobile that pollutes more than you think it would / should so to be getting all this compensation for just having bought a TDI....

I may be going out on a limb but how is a car that came from the factory polluting 40x more than it should... a perfectly fine automobile?

I bet asthmatics, seniors, and people with respiratory challenges would beg to differ.

[Canadian Turbo]

Re: VW in trouble

I may be going out on a limb but how is a car that came from the factory polluting 40x more than it should... a perfectly fine automobile?

I bet asthmatics, seniors, and people with respiratory challenges would beg to differ.

Well I meant more in a usable vehicle capacity, not preventing people from conducting their day to day lives, however the 40x was worst case, full load scenario (10 - 20x is the average) but I still think people buying diesel cars are not significantly concerned with air pollutants. I do agree VW claiming the cars as clean diesel is false and hence why NA is getting far more compensation compared with Europe because of this claim. My last point was more of the people stripping the cars and getting every nickel out of VW when they are already facing heavy compensation and penalties and some people are getting very greedy about it all.

I would still also like to know what the EPA plans to do with all the fine money, as it needs to go fully to reducing air pollutants and not any other government areas to be beneficial.

[witchcraftz]

Re: VW in trouble

I think that it's all been so over inflated. How many diesel semi trucks are there? How many diesel pickup trucks?
So instead of the 0.07 they emit 0.70 or 1.4 at worst, I bet a pickup truck is still worse. Also the cars emit almost no Co2.

[sabbySC]

Re: VW in trouble

It's about false advertising and breaking the rules. It doesn't matter what other vehicles do as long as they meet the required standard.

That being said two wrongs don't make a right, buy back should not include striped vehicles, Canada should receive similar compensation. It's a mess but they will survive.

[R_Ethug]

Re: VW in trouble

yea i was at the dealer friday asking about any updates and the poor service team just tells me i'll know before they'll know most likely. i'll see where things land

[CGY_GTI]

Re: VW in trouble

Slightly off the diesel topic, but I'm glad to see the whole diesel thing hasn't hurt VW too badly. A new sales record was set by VWAG in 2016, up nearly 4% from 2015.

http://www.vwvortex.com/news/volkswa...sales-in-2016/

[witchcraftz]

Re: VW in trouble

It's about false advertising and breaking the rules.

Agreed. What they did deserves a penalty and fine.

It doesn't matter what other vehicles do as long as they meet the required standard.

I don't agree on this though, My point was not about standards but about what is polluting more, a diesel car or another vehicle, the diesel cars are not clean as we thought, but I don't think that they are monsters either, I think this just makes them average on that point.

I would like to see a chart of vehicle emissions measured per passenger load across all vehicles, that would be a better picture of all vehicles and how polluting they are.

[Stonewall]

Re: VW in trouble

Even 40x a small amount is still a small amount. These cars pollute waaaay less then any large sized diesel truck out there. Yes they lied about how much they pollute but it is not like they lied and it is really some large black smoking monster hidden in a candy cane. Those with respiratory problems should be lobbying for transport level sized diesels to be cleaner not worrying about a rather small amount of diesels in comparison creating a bit more carbon output.

[BaggedGLI]

Re: VW in trouble

"How many trucks operate in the U.S.?
Estimates of 15.5 million trucks operate in the U.S.. Of this figure 2 million are tractor trailers."

Go after the 400,000 Volkswagens!

http://www.truckinfo.net/trucking/stats.htm

[witchcraftz]

Re: VW in trouble

Great point there Colin!

Just to add some more to the pile:

In 2016 alone there were 10 Million SUV, minivan and Pickup truck sales in the USA.
Pickup trucks accounted for 2.6 Million of those sales.
Ford Motor Co., the biggest pickup seller, sold 1.8 Million of those.
Ford says 60% of their trucks are sold with diesel engine, and 42% are used for simply commuting.

So that means just Ford, in 2016 only, sold 1 million trucks with 6.4L diesel engines, of which 450,000 are used as daily commuters, same as a car.

Compare that to 500,000 to 400,000 total 1.9L/2.0L VW TDI vehicles, sold over 10 years, used for commuting?

http://www.constructionequipment.com...onomics-change
http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/pag...autosales.html

[CGY_GTI]

Re: VW in trouble

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet.

Volkswagen agrees to $4.3B U.S. emissions scandal settlement

Volkswagen AG has agreed to a $4.3 billion US settlement to resolve the U.S. government's civil and criminal investigations into the German automaker's diesel emissions cheating, according to documents made public Wednesday.

Prosecutors also charged six Volkswagen executives and employees, for their roles in the nearly 10-year conspiracy, including Oliver Schmidt, who was a manager in charge of VW's environmental and engineering office in Michigan.

On Monday, Schmidt was accused of conspiracy to defraud the United States over the company's emissions cheating and the automaker was charged with concealing the cheating from regulators.

According to documents filed in U.S. District Court in Detroit, VW will pay a $1.5-billion US civil fine and $2.8-billion UScriminal fine. It would have faced higher fines if it hadn't agreed to spend an estimated $11 billion US to address consumer vehicles.

After the company pleads guilty to the three-count felony criminal information - conspiracy to commit fraud, obstruction of justice and entry of goods by false statement - it will be formally sentenced.

VW admitted that six unnamed supervisors between 2006 and 2016 agreed to mislead regulators and customers about the standards. The Justice Department said VW officials told engineers in 2012 to destroy a document that detailed the cheating and that lawyers prodded employees to destroy documents.

VW will face oversight by an independent monitor for three years and has agreed to make significant reforms. The company agreed to fire six employees, suspend eight and discipline three who participated in diesel misconduct. The agreement still must be approved by U.S. District Judge Sean Cox in Detroit.

The world's second-largest automaker confirmed Tuesday it had negotiated a $4.3-billion US concrete draft settlement with U.S. regulators to resolve its diesel emissions issues and plans to plead guilty to criminal misconduct as part of the civil and criminal settlement.

The VW plea agreement says the automaker could have been fined as much as $34.1 billion for its criminal conduct.

Volkswagen had previously agreed to spend up to $17.5 billion in the United States to resolve claims by U.S. regulators, owners and dealers and offered to buy back nearly 500,000 polluting vehicles. The automaker was in intensive talks with regulators in recent weeks in an effort to reach a deal before the end of the Obama administration.

Without a deal by next week, a final resolution could have been delayed by months until the Trump EPA and Justice Department teams are in place.

VW admitted in September 2015 to installing secret software in hundreds of thousands of U.S. diesel cars to cheat exhaust emissions tests and make them appear cleaner than they were on the road, and that as many as 11 million vehicles could have similar software installed worldwide.

Much of the company's senior management departed following the scandal, including chief executive Martin Winterkorn.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/volk...ment-1.3930655

There's some other somewhat related news today...

U.S. EPA accuses FCA for emissions test cheating with Jeep, Ram EcoDiesel models

If the EPA's accusations hold true, Fiat Chrysler could be looking at a US$3.9 billion fine

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is accusing Fiat Chrysler of concealing software in 104,000 diesel vehicles that could lead the vehicle to emit more than the allowable amount of pollutants.

The engine in question is the 3.0-litre EcoDiesel V6 engine, found certain in Ram 1500 pickups and Jeep Grand Cherokee SUVs. If proven, FCA could face fines of up to US$37,500 per vehicle. Multiplied by the number of cars affected, the total fine could amount to US$3.9 billion.

“FCA US intends to work with the incoming administration to present its case and resolve this matter fairly and equitably, and to assure the EPA and FCA US customers that the company’s diesel-powered vehicles meet all applicable regulatory requirements,” the automaker responded in a statement.

For months, the EPA has declined to certify the brand’s 2017 Ram and Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel models, but Fiat Chrysler has been selling 2016 models in the meantime.

The technical side of the issue revolves around an “axillary emissions control device,” which is supposed to limit certain emissions functions to safeguard an engines durability in extreme situations. An example of this would be when an engine defaults to a richer burn if an oxygen sensor fails or sends poor readings.

FCA is alleged to have used this software to run the 3.0L diesel V6 more efficiently in the real world, at the cost of emissions.

http://driving.ca/jeep/grand-cheroke...ine-threatened

The whole VW diesel thing should have set a precedent for this kind of violation, so FCA *should* face an equivalent penalty for this. I suspect they'll get a slap on the wrist for this, just like GM did for the whole ignition switch problem.